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Last 20 Posts
comment by OhBoy on May 02, 2003 12:03 am ET
re: Public Service Announcement
amer
that would be a bug...because they had planned on having it the other way around.
as for our issue, it is not a bug because what happened was exactly what nc wanted. they wanted pandoras prices up...so they put them up.
how people use things may be different from how nc wants us to use things...im sure when nc looks at coi, they think of different ways to use it than most people do. on ken coi is used differently than on dep im sure.
on dep, coi is used for fighting the most.
on ken..i dunno. maybe run to boss?
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comment by Weathersmurf on May 01, 2003 11:45 pm ET
re: Public Service Announcement
#199 - amer
Ok, I make a comment about my motivations, you make up a whole lot more to add to it, when I point out you said them and not me you say you believe me...I'm flattered. But fine =P
I'd rather believe the people than NC Austin's blanket statements. NC never said exactly what was said afaik. They may well have decided that innocent experimentation will be judged as worthy of a permaban. They wouldn't be lying--they just wouldn't be telling us their standards.
If they got it backward, that would be a bug. The prices were not as intended to be, and what they wanted in the update was incorrectly coded. Of course, there would be no way to tell that it was a bug unless the game designers told the players.
Haha...I said "generally," which does mean what I said was a generalization ^^ And "interesting" is subjective.
#202 - BigPope
It would be a bug if they didn't mean to raise the price. However, they would have had to accidentally code in the price raise and also unintentionally announce a price raise that they didn't knew existed...the chances of which are slim. They meant for scrolls to be sold at 100a and to be bought at 100a by players, and 100a == 100a therefore they DID intend to make it so you can buy and sell scrolls at the same price. And either your #4 is incorrect or Whitehand is blatantly lying:
"and my friend told me they are fixing it in 7 hours so i went to lineagecompendium and found out it was true. besides that i don't think it was worth it so i told people to stop and so they did. we never knew we could possible be banned or punished in any way because sol didn't get any neither."
"i don't even think i exploited a bug after finding out it did make a difference if i reported to nc would i have been banned? well we never know but i dont think so. i didn't bother doing so because it was going to be fixed anyways in 6~7 hours."
That some people are not clear on what a "bug" is does not mean the scroll price was a bug. (Many humans do not know what bonoboes are. When shown a picture of a bonobo, many said "monkey!" Bonoboes are apes, not monkeys. Does their mistake prove that bonoboes are now monkeys and no longer apes?)
Perhaps their stance is based on logic and not hate. But "oh of course they hate NC, that's why they say that" is a wonderful example of ad hominem.
You can call a bonobo a monkey all you want.
By definition, children act childish, therefore I guess they are "childishly punished" 24/7? Try making sense, please.
Similarities are seen by individuals... Monkeys at the zoo and living humans all breathe. Breathing is an action we have in common. Therefore NC should ignore us. Is that what you're saying?
If we were to all act responsibly, we would immediately cancel our accounts and boycott NC until THEY acted responsibly. And don't give me that bs about "Because we didn't suck up to them, they have no time to unban people that they otherwise would have had" ROFL.
It was # 18 of the RoC, not the ToS. But as amer pointed out, it's rather irrelevant. (So are many things mentioned here, such as monkeys and humans breathing or whatever.)
No illegal content can be on the site? Maybe I better post a link to a warez site or something. Then there will a link to a virtual space where illegal activity is possible, even if only for a few seconds until you delete it. Then this'll no longer be an official fansite, eh?
Their user agreement states they don't need a reason. Ethics, OTOH, demands it.
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comment by K-ZS-M on May 01, 2003 11:18 pm ET
re: Public Service Announcement
all the ppl banned r either:
1. fight NC to obtain their accounts back
2. create another account under a different credit card and start over again
3. play off their friend's account and maybe power lvl a char to lvl 50+ (may be against the rules, but NC has shown that they don't care unless u complain that u were hacked or such, which is a good thing for our sake)
4. quit and never go back to an evil world NC controls
the true friends of the ppl banned
will probably follow the same route their friend goes
if it is a serious bug
they should fix it right away
they think ppl won't take advantage
dumb NC, they must think we're dumbasses to not take advantage
whatever
this has been mentioned already
the crime was done, but the punishment was too harsh
what can we really do...
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comment by Coot on May 01, 2003 11:13 pm ET
re: 5/1 - Server Publish
everyone who says they lvld without b2s, you also basically lvld without soft ac. nc takes (soft ac), then gives (b2s), then takes more (weaker b2s)... a pattern? hmm.. thats just elf try it with all the other races.
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comment by natlswim on May 01, 2003 11:09 pm ET
re: 5/1 - Server Publish
TheCollector,
I can guarantee b2s at 10 second delay is a lot harder than no b2s at all.
the newer elves have had b2s since they started.
I went from 1-49.8x w/o it, or any other elven spell. so please don't bring up having advantages over other elves, I've worked damn hard for this -.-
ty
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comment by Protocol on May 01, 2003 10:05 pm ET
re: Public Service Announcement
BigPope
"4. Whitehand saw the change was coming soon to dep. Decided to expoilt it while he still could."
whitehand went to LC AFTER i repeat, AFTER he did it and discovered it was going to be fixed. I think ur reasources aren't all entirely dependable if you only take in 1 side. But i understand ur position.
forgive me if i not making much sense today, its been a hard day
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comment by BigPope on May 01, 2003 09:46 pm ET
re: Public Service Announcement
Weathersmurf we have already been through this on what is and what isnt a bug.
According to dictionary.com A Bug is An unwanted and unintended property of a program or piece of hardware, esp. one that causes it to malfunction.
Now lets take what little facts we know about this situation.
1. NCsoft raised the prices of scrolls
2. NCsoft made a patch that changed the price again. Went through Korea to US Test.
3. Paldo noticed they could buy and sell scrolls for same price.
4. Whitehand saw the change was coming soon to dep. Decided to expoilt it while he still could.
5. Lots of teleporting and buy/selling of scrolls
6. NCSoft finds out and bans the people that did it.
So now lets ask ourselfs, did NCSoft intend to make it so you can buy sell scrolls for same price. The answer is blatantly no. Thats why they changed made a patch after they noticed it could be done. People that expoilted the bug and got banned even called it expoilting a bug. They knew the fix was on its way. How can you not call it a bug. It fits the defention pefectly.
I call it a bug.
NCsoft calls it a bug.
The people that did it call it a bug. You should reread some of rokkboy's posts, because he called it a bug in the only one I read.
If the people at templar dont agree thats expected. Templar seems to have been made to be a place to post libel about NCSoft. If you talk to quest you can clearly see he hates NCSoft. Just like most the people on Templar. They just hate NCSoft so ofcource they are going to take the oppisite view of them.
Everyone that was directly involved calls it a bug, both the banners and the bannies. And someone that wasn't involved at all, me, calls it a bug too.
As for my comment. I stick by it, If you act childish your going to get childish punishments. I never said that anyone banned didn't do anything wrong. But maybe some dont deserve permabans because they were told to do it by their prince, and were only complying with a order. Whitehand did say he did it a few times then started to tell people not too, I dont know if its true or not, but I don't think he should get perm banned if he did that. But because everyone is acting out like shit throwing monkeys at the zoo, why would ncsoft even think about being kind and giving them a lesser penaty then they got at first. Because of us, they now have 10 times the clean up to do then they would of had to do if we all acted responsably about this. If we didn't give them so many posts to edit and delete, then they would of had some time when they could have looked over the characters one more time to see if they didn't deserve a perm ban.
Also awile back amer said that rule 18 was in the TOS, and you said no It was in the rules of conduct. Amer said that he admits he was wrong and you were right. But you are both right. The rules of conduct is a part of the TOS you must agree to, to agree to the TOS, so they are now part of the TOS.
As for the Idea of putting a disclamer on the site about the posts of the users dont have anything to do with us. That really doesn't work, we currently plan on staying a part of the NCSoft offical fansites. And a part of that is that no illegal content can be on our site. Be it us that put it their, or some user or even a hacker. If we know its their we must remove it. Until we decide to stop being an offical fansite, we will comply with the rules of being one and not look the other way when such things get posted.
I have said this like 30 times before and now I will say it again. If you cheat, and you get caught, your going to get punished. If NCSoft believes you cheated, and you dont think so, your still going to get punished. NCSoft can ban a person just because its sunny outside. They dont need a reason to ban you. But making money but using something in the game that is unintended to be in the game, also called a bug, is a reason that I view to be a bannable offense.
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comment by amer on May 01, 2003 09:42 pm ET
re: Public Service Announcement
Thanks, TrendKill. I posted my reply. :(
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comment by TrendKill on May 01, 2003 09:38 pm ET
re: Public Service Announcement
AMER,
Many first offenders were banned. Look here:
http://boards.lineage-us.com/cgi-bin/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=Discussions&Number=351320&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&part=
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comment by amer on May 01, 2003 09:24 pm ET
re: Public Service Announcement
Weathersmurf:
Fine, let's put aside the meta-argument of "are you arguing for arguments sake or for your personal entertainment". If you are being genuine, I believe you.
"Learning new information or hindsight about judgment does not change whether they thought it was wrong at the time."
Agreed. However, how are you so sure what they thought at the time? If they said in chat "I think I found a bug with the new update" does that not mean they knew at the time that something was afoot? NC says they reviewed chat logs and that's what they used to judge action. Are we assuming that NC is lying? Don't get defensive, I'm not saying NC is as clean as snow. I just want to know what our basic assumptions are.
OhBoy/Weathersmurf:
I think it's a valid opinion to ponder if it's a new feature of the tax system. It is ambiguous. But at how much adena per minute do we say "now, wait a minute - how is it that the rest of the game is set up that we have to earn adena, but here it's a no-risk, only limited by your speed" situation?
Here's a hypothetical so I can try and understand your viewpoint: If they posted that "Pandora's nprat price changed" and intended for the change to be that she sells at 300, but buys at 100, and instead had it so she bought at 300 and sold at 100 (got it backwards) so that people could make 200a per scroll, without even owning a castle - is that (to you) a bug or an intended feature of the game?
Now, again, don't get mad, I am just curious about if you think anything on the live servers that is announced, regardless of if the implementation matches the intention of the announcement is a bug. I'm not saying NC is blameless and we just totally abused them and they are totally guilt free. NC screwed up, I think no one, not even NC, disagrees with that.
"so I'll stay an immature, honest, open-minded, reasonable person"
I don't want to get into a debate about your personality, because I don't know you, and equally, you don't know me and well, it's irrelevant and will descend into personal attacks which I'll have to delete. But I do want to say if hypothetically a person called themself open-minded in the sentence immediately after a closed-minded stereotype is interesting, don't you agree?
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